I actually went through this last week. "My thoughts don't matter." I think he was just wanting to talk. You hit really good points here. But now I walk away and ignore him. I know my own value building brick by brick. When people say things like this it's about them not you. Thank you for writing this. It needs to be said.
I remember versions of that couch moment with my first husband—and then, heartbreakingly, echoes of it again with other relationships. Different words, same flat affect. Same sense that my vulnerability had just been turned into evidence against me. What I learned (the long, expensive, therapy-soaked way) is exactly what you name here: when someone responds to tenderness with reduction—especially body-based reduction—the content almost doesn’t matter. The relational move has already been made. I’m not a partner in that moment; I’m a problem to be managed, corrected, or blamed.
What I so appreciate about this piece is how clearly you disentangle “honesty” from care. As a clinician, I see how many women are still trying to metabolize harm by asking the wrong question: Was he right? instead of Was I safe to be vulnerable here? Weaponized honesty trains us to shrink, to pre-edit, to abandon our own inner knowing. And once you’ve lived it, you can feel the difference immediately—between a hard truth offered with care and a truth dropped like a stone because the impact is the point. Thank you for naming that so cleanly. It will help a lot of women stop gaslighting themselves.
I was married for 10 years to a narcissistic abuser and had to heal from that trauma and be very careful about choosing my next partner. It took awhile but I finally found one and thankfully I’m married to a gem of a guy who honors and respects me. Married almost 20 years to this one. However, it’s a few female “friends” I’ve encountered who have hurt me with their dismissive and disrespectful words in the last 10 years. Recently one such “friend” texted me a long message because I’ve been busy taking care of my elderly parent and other things of life and kept telling her I couldn’t meet up with her just yet. All of a sudden, she verbally vomits on me and tells me that I’m someone who treats her like a “friend of convenience” only calling her when I need her (she does that, not me) and how I “never” make time for her (again not true…she’s had many people cut her off because of her rudeness and hurtful directness including her grown kids) and I drop everything to listen to her for hours complain about how poorly she was treated by so and so. She ended the text by saying that she had enough of my thoughtlessness and to not text her back. No room for allowing me to question her sudden decision to cut me off or even clarify what she meant. No desire for repair. Just attacks on my character and then leaving the room while my heart was in shambles. It’s been two weeks and I’m still grieving the loss of this friendship and asking myself what I did wrong. This article helped me immensely to remind me that some people just don’t care enough to give the “truth” (or their perception of the truth) in love. They are wired to use words to hurt and maim (which she’s done to many people…I’ve just been the exception till now). Being a loyal person, I’ve been having a hard time letting go (hence staying in that abusive marriage for 10 years, hoping it would get better somehow). My current husband, my beautiful and sensitive man, has been comforting me but he finally said to me the other day (after talking about this friend incessantly ), “Maybe it’s time to just let go.” Anyway, the point of this comment, besides thanking you for such a valuable piece, is to also emphasize that there are ample examples of narcissistic women whose “catty” behavior will scratch your eyes out if you let them.
Wow. I'm relating to all of the things. I need to go find a therapist now which I dread because it takes so long to unpack things. And if one more therapist even mentions "I statements" I'll poke their eyeballs out.
Extracting myself from a sociopathic narcissist is one of the most difficult things I've ever done in my life - and I mean emotionally, mentally, & spiritually. He shredded my heart, my mind & my soul, stole my children's minds...& then dumped me all the while thinking he was going to get half of my very well-deserved tho small pension. Cruelty is the point.
Experienced this way too much because of my "golden rule up bringing" well I am finally tired of that crap. I am standing my ground and using my voice when that happens now....
I miss School Social Worker and I see this all the time it’s pretty similar or I’m just joking, why did you take it so seriously. It’s just a passive aggressive way to hurt people and not take responsibility.
Being “in a relationship” with a cruel narcissist isn’t a real thing. One may live under the same roof, make monetary payments and even raise children together, but relationships require emotional maturity, shared compassion and respectful, kind, uplifting intentions. Narcissists are repelled by these things. I’d argue that lack of sex is the least of one’s worries with a narcissist.
Excellent point of view, Ellen! It has always been a favourite narcissistic narrative: "I'm just being honest". In 21st century, we finally realised that we've been living in patriarchy for thousands of years, but now it's time to be awaken for another truth: we live in a toxic world ruled by narcissists, who teach their children to act like them, and the circle is endless. Articles like this one can help many people to finally open their eyes, get up and start resisting. So thank you so much, Ellen, for making this very clear, for showing us all the problems, for cutting them up without blaming and for teaching to behave differently - revealing that the other way exists.
First, let's acknowledge that 1) he actually listened to your question, 2) he actually responded, and 3) his response was spoken. A perfect trifecta! I disagree that he was actually answering honestly. (The TRUTHful answer would likely have been, "I'm no longer physically attracted to you.") Fruitful discussion can then take place. Perhaps he does not think that physical relations are part of the deal that is marriage. And if he's repelled by, say, an extra 25#s, will he be just as repelled by the wrinkles that will show up once you have lost the extra facial fat keeping those crow's feet at bay? They usually arrive between 35-40 (depending on how much sun you're able to avoid.) Will he be repelled by naturally graying hair. And if so, is he willing to donate $ toward keeping the color maintained?
Wonderful piece. The only thing I’d add is that the men (it’s usually men) who veil their harsh words as honesty, can rarely tolerate being receivers of such honesty themselves.
I wonder if I could add an observation from analyzing power dynamics globally.
The pattern you’re describing isn’t just interpersonal, it’s structural.
Map global conflict, institutional violence, authoritarian escalation. There’s a consistent variable: male socialization that confuses cruelty with strength and weaponizes “honesty” as domination.
Who starts wars. Who commits mass shootings. Who runs authoritarian regimes. Who threatens allied territory over ego. Who murders partners at exponentially higher rates. The pattern is undeniable.
Boys are taught emotional intelligence is weakness. That filtering cruelty through care is dishonest. So they become men who genuinely believe inflicting pain without concern for impact is virtue.
Then we scale that to geopolitics.
The micro (weaponized honesty in relationships) and macro (weaponized honesty in governance) are identical. Same refusal to consider impact. Same positioning of cruelty as courage.
Your gut feeling that told you something was wrong? That’s the same alarm allies feel watching American foreign policy. Delivery reveals intent. And intent reveals whether someone’s struggling to communicate or using communication as a weapon.
The world is full of problems created by men who mistake emotional brutality for strength.
The best societies are those that are most equal split between men and women like Scandinavia.
>>Here’s what that moment on the couch did to me. It made me avoid initiating any conversation about us for months afterward.
I hope that's not all you avoided. In fact, I hope you immediately showed him the door. "You've gained weight" is guy talk for "I don't find you attractive and I'm already seeing someone else."
I actually went through this last week. "My thoughts don't matter." I think he was just wanting to talk. You hit really good points here. But now I walk away and ignore him. I know my own value building brick by brick. When people say things like this it's about them not you. Thank you for writing this. It needs to be said.
Oof. This landed in my body because I lived it.
I remember versions of that couch moment with my first husband—and then, heartbreakingly, echoes of it again with other relationships. Different words, same flat affect. Same sense that my vulnerability had just been turned into evidence against me. What I learned (the long, expensive, therapy-soaked way) is exactly what you name here: when someone responds to tenderness with reduction—especially body-based reduction—the content almost doesn’t matter. The relational move has already been made. I’m not a partner in that moment; I’m a problem to be managed, corrected, or blamed.
What I so appreciate about this piece is how clearly you disentangle “honesty” from care. As a clinician, I see how many women are still trying to metabolize harm by asking the wrong question: Was he right? instead of Was I safe to be vulnerable here? Weaponized honesty trains us to shrink, to pre-edit, to abandon our own inner knowing. And once you’ve lived it, you can feel the difference immediately—between a hard truth offered with care and a truth dropped like a stone because the impact is the point. Thank you for naming that so cleanly. It will help a lot of women stop gaslighting themselves.
I was married for 10 years to a narcissistic abuser and had to heal from that trauma and be very careful about choosing my next partner. It took awhile but I finally found one and thankfully I’m married to a gem of a guy who honors and respects me. Married almost 20 years to this one. However, it’s a few female “friends” I’ve encountered who have hurt me with their dismissive and disrespectful words in the last 10 years. Recently one such “friend” texted me a long message because I’ve been busy taking care of my elderly parent and other things of life and kept telling her I couldn’t meet up with her just yet. All of a sudden, she verbally vomits on me and tells me that I’m someone who treats her like a “friend of convenience” only calling her when I need her (she does that, not me) and how I “never” make time for her (again not true…she’s had many people cut her off because of her rudeness and hurtful directness including her grown kids) and I drop everything to listen to her for hours complain about how poorly she was treated by so and so. She ended the text by saying that she had enough of my thoughtlessness and to not text her back. No room for allowing me to question her sudden decision to cut me off or even clarify what she meant. No desire for repair. Just attacks on my character and then leaving the room while my heart was in shambles. It’s been two weeks and I’m still grieving the loss of this friendship and asking myself what I did wrong. This article helped me immensely to remind me that some people just don’t care enough to give the “truth” (or their perception of the truth) in love. They are wired to use words to hurt and maim (which she’s done to many people…I’ve just been the exception till now). Being a loyal person, I’ve been having a hard time letting go (hence staying in that abusive marriage for 10 years, hoping it would get better somehow). My current husband, my beautiful and sensitive man, has been comforting me but he finally said to me the other day (after talking about this friend incessantly ), “Maybe it’s time to just let go.” Anyway, the point of this comment, besides thanking you for such a valuable piece, is to also emphasize that there are ample examples of narcissistic women whose “catty” behavior will scratch your eyes out if you let them.
Wow. I'm relating to all of the things. I need to go find a therapist now which I dread because it takes so long to unpack things. And if one more therapist even mentions "I statements" I'll poke their eyeballs out.
Extracting myself from a sociopathic narcissist is one of the most difficult things I've ever done in my life - and I mean emotionally, mentally, & spiritually. He shredded my heart, my mind & my soul, stole my children's minds...& then dumped me all the while thinking he was going to get half of my very well-deserved tho small pension. Cruelty is the point.
Experienced this way too much because of my "golden rule up bringing" well I am finally tired of that crap. I am standing my ground and using my voice when that happens now....
I miss School Social Worker and I see this all the time it’s pretty similar or I’m just joking, why did you take it so seriously. It’s just a passive aggressive way to hurt people and not take responsibility.
Being “in a relationship” with a cruel narcissist isn’t a real thing. One may live under the same roof, make monetary payments and even raise children together, but relationships require emotional maturity, shared compassion and respectful, kind, uplifting intentions. Narcissists are repelled by these things. I’d argue that lack of sex is the least of one’s worries with a narcissist.
Excellent point of view, Ellen! It has always been a favourite narcissistic narrative: "I'm just being honest". In 21st century, we finally realised that we've been living in patriarchy for thousands of years, but now it's time to be awaken for another truth: we live in a toxic world ruled by narcissists, who teach their children to act like them, and the circle is endless. Articles like this one can help many people to finally open their eyes, get up and start resisting. So thank you so much, Ellen, for making this very clear, for showing us all the problems, for cutting them up without blaming and for teaching to behave differently - revealing that the other way exists.
Here's a different perspective:
First, let's acknowledge that 1) he actually listened to your question, 2) he actually responded, and 3) his response was spoken. A perfect trifecta! I disagree that he was actually answering honestly. (The TRUTHful answer would likely have been, "I'm no longer physically attracted to you.") Fruitful discussion can then take place. Perhaps he does not think that physical relations are part of the deal that is marriage. And if he's repelled by, say, an extra 25#s, will he be just as repelled by the wrinkles that will show up once you have lost the extra facial fat keeping those crow's feet at bay? They usually arrive between 35-40 (depending on how much sun you're able to avoid.) Will he be repelled by naturally graying hair. And if so, is he willing to donate $ toward keeping the color maintained?
Wonderful piece. The only thing I’d add is that the men (it’s usually men) who veil their harsh words as honesty, can rarely tolerate being receivers of such honesty themselves.
Ellen, powerful piece.
I wonder if I could add an observation from analyzing power dynamics globally.
The pattern you’re describing isn’t just interpersonal, it’s structural.
Map global conflict, institutional violence, authoritarian escalation. There’s a consistent variable: male socialization that confuses cruelty with strength and weaponizes “honesty” as domination.
Who starts wars. Who commits mass shootings. Who runs authoritarian regimes. Who threatens allied territory over ego. Who murders partners at exponentially higher rates. The pattern is undeniable.
Boys are taught emotional intelligence is weakness. That filtering cruelty through care is dishonest. So they become men who genuinely believe inflicting pain without concern for impact is virtue.
Then we scale that to geopolitics.
The micro (weaponized honesty in relationships) and macro (weaponized honesty in governance) are identical. Same refusal to consider impact. Same positioning of cruelty as courage.
Your gut feeling that told you something was wrong? That’s the same alarm allies feel watching American foreign policy. Delivery reveals intent. And intent reveals whether someone’s struggling to communicate or using communication as a weapon.
The world is full of problems created by men who mistake emotional brutality for strength.
The best societies are those that are most equal split between men and women like Scandinavia.
— Johan
Well said; if only more men could recognize that...
>>Here’s what that moment on the couch did to me. It made me avoid initiating any conversation about us for months afterward.
I hope that's not all you avoided. In fact, I hope you immediately showed him the door. "You've gained weight" is guy talk for "I don't find you attractive and I'm already seeing someone else."
You are so right. A near universal experience among women, I think.