"Agreeable women get loved and difficult ones do not" — I learned that lesson so thoroughly I stopped being able to tell the difference between what I actually thought and what would land well.
Retirement was the first time in forty years I ran out of people to manage. I thought the quiet would feel like freedom. It felt like a power outage. I'm still figuring out whose preferences I'm actually tracking.
I’m curious if anyone went from people pleasing & fawning to flat out rejection of it. When I turned 48 I lost my ability to “please” almost overnight. In the last 7-8 years I’ve struggled to be kind in my rejection of what ppl expect me to be. I’ve left jobs, blown interviews, strained relationships with friends, relatives. I simply say what I believe to be true and what I will and will not tolerate. Either treat me with respect, and as an equal, or you will lose access to me.
I feel like I’m finally learning to be a bit more diplomatic - but wow the snap turnaround (right around when I hit menopause) was intense.
Wow. Thank you so much. There is a two-year old 12-step group called TAR-Anon that hosts free and anonymous (change your name/camera off if desired) meetings each weekday. Psycho education and intro to breathwork are both great. Been going for about a year. 2-3 times a week. Good books and resources are mentioned. There are many therapists on the zoom and many people say their therapists recommended the call. Recovery from adverse childhood experiences likely involves sorting through a toxic relationship or three. Highly recommend. And I want to attend your event. Will check availability! Thank you for this terrific post. That distinction between fawning and people pleasing makes sense and I am going to watch for it. Also, would like to cross-post this piece on a 62K+ social network I co-run, PACEsConnection.com
Please reply to let me know it’s okay? Would be linked back to here. Believe I could pick up and post with acknowledgement and I’d like to connect and have your permission. Great post! (That was not a fawn.)😉
Approaching my 81st solar return, I rarely was a fawner. I attribute that fact to my mother-father, how I was raised, and to many decades of studying mentors who talked about this subject.
In my book (Sexy In Your Sixties) I have a section called "On Being Selfish".
These passages came to my attention in the 80s:
"As you begin to put yourself first, you must learn to tolerate other peoples' anger and disapproval. Do not argue, apologize or attempt to justify yourself. Remain as even-tempered and cheerful as possible and go on about your activities.
You must listen carefully to your inner voice regarding what is good for you, right for you, and then follow it. This is how you develop healthy self-interest, by listening to your own cues.
Up until now you've probably been nearly psychic at picking up other people's clues about how they wanted you to behave. Tune those cues out, or they'll continue to drown out your own.
Becoming selfish finally requires that you recognize your self worth is great, and that your talents are worthy of expression, that your fulfillment is as important as anyone else's and that your best self is the greatest gift you have to give the world as a whole, and most especially those closest to you.
Say "no" to please yourself, rather than "yes" to please someone else. Ask clearly for something you want and risk being refused. Allow yourself to feel it, it all its intensity. Then bathe in the warmth of self acceptance; your gift to yourself".
Fawning is a term I learned way too late in life but I am so glad I learned it at all! Thank you Ellen for putting it in such blunt and clear terms. The differentiation of fawning and people pleasing is so well drawn as well, because out of my personal experience it feels so thin the line between but now it is so clearly distinctive in my mind.
(And on a selfish side note: Thank you for announcing our Live! I AM SO DAMN EXCITED!!!)
Love the distinction btwn people pleasing & fawning! As an adult born & raised in a Christian cult, I fawned to survive & yes, it’s hard wired into my nervous system. Rewiring requires recognition, course correction, acceptance & grace. Btw, did you know that Rachel Bernstein signs off every podcast with ‘One more thing before you go’?
This brought tears to my eyes. I’m only now, at 54, starting to understand that fawning has always been there, hidden deep in my deepest unconscious. It has been crushing to see it, and to take stock of the cost. But also liberating to heal (with lots of professional help) and start feeling something healthier in my body, in my response to the world. Thank for you naming this.
We are close in age. It’s certainly not too late for us & it takes courage to do this work & release a shame so closely associated with this behavior. People generally think, oh, just change…but it’s not so simple when it was literally wired into our operating system!
Thank you for that. It is definitely so much harder than “just change.” I’m not sure anyone can understand it who hasn’t felt it deep down in their cells for a lifetime. Thank goodness change is possible though! It’s such a joy to feel free of the fawning
"Agreeable women get loved and difficult ones do not" — I learned that lesson so thoroughly I stopped being able to tell the difference between what I actually thought and what would land well.
Retirement was the first time in forty years I ran out of people to manage. I thought the quiet would feel like freedom. It felt like a power outage. I'm still figuring out whose preferences I'm actually tracking.
This is so interesting, I've never seen this distinction before
Thank you for this. The differences between fawning and people pleasing is so clarifying and such a helpful distinction!
“You’re managing everyone else’s inner world while quietly abandoning your own.” It’s like you know me exactly.
I’m curious if anyone went from people pleasing & fawning to flat out rejection of it. When I turned 48 I lost my ability to “please” almost overnight. In the last 7-8 years I’ve struggled to be kind in my rejection of what ppl expect me to be. I’ve left jobs, blown interviews, strained relationships with friends, relatives. I simply say what I believe to be true and what I will and will not tolerate. Either treat me with respect, and as an equal, or you will lose access to me.
I feel like I’m finally learning to be a bit more diplomatic - but wow the snap turnaround (right around when I hit menopause) was intense.
More crass folks say that we’ve “run out of fucks.” 🤪
The first time I heard the term, fawning, was working with a guy who had Autism. It’s said to be an unconscious trauma based survival response.
Very good read. I think I tried fawning my way to the top. And I allowed myself to be taken advantage of over and over. Never thought of it like that.
I thought I was people pleasing until I realized I was a fawning person big difference thinking I’ll never shake it
I always love your writing but this ones a top ten .
Wow. Thank you so much. There is a two-year old 12-step group called TAR-Anon that hosts free and anonymous (change your name/camera off if desired) meetings each weekday. Psycho education and intro to breathwork are both great. Been going for about a year. 2-3 times a week. Good books and resources are mentioned. There are many therapists on the zoom and many people say their therapists recommended the call. Recovery from adverse childhood experiences likely involves sorting through a toxic relationship or three. Highly recommend. And I want to attend your event. Will check availability! Thank you for this terrific post. That distinction between fawning and people pleasing makes sense and I am going to watch for it. Also, would like to cross-post this piece on a 62K+ social network I co-run, PACEsConnection.com
Please reply to let me know it’s okay? Would be linked back to here. Believe I could pick up and post with acknowledgement and I’d like to connect and have your permission. Great post! (That was not a fawn.)😉
Important piece. I'm so glad I read you today!
The best explanation of fawning I’ve ever read! Until this, I didn’t fully understand fawning. The title is also PERFECT.
Approaching my 81st solar return, I rarely was a fawner. I attribute that fact to my mother-father, how I was raised, and to many decades of studying mentors who talked about this subject.
In my book (Sexy In Your Sixties) I have a section called "On Being Selfish".
These passages came to my attention in the 80s:
"As you begin to put yourself first, you must learn to tolerate other peoples' anger and disapproval. Do not argue, apologize or attempt to justify yourself. Remain as even-tempered and cheerful as possible and go on about your activities.
You must listen carefully to your inner voice regarding what is good for you, right for you, and then follow it. This is how you develop healthy self-interest, by listening to your own cues.
Up until now you've probably been nearly psychic at picking up other people's clues about how they wanted you to behave. Tune those cues out, or they'll continue to drown out your own.
Becoming selfish finally requires that you recognize your self worth is great, and that your talents are worthy of expression, that your fulfillment is as important as anyone else's and that your best self is the greatest gift you have to give the world as a whole, and most especially those closest to you.
Say "no" to please yourself, rather than "yes" to please someone else. Ask clearly for something you want and risk being refused. Allow yourself to feel it, it all its intensity. Then bathe in the warmth of self acceptance; your gift to yourself".
Fawning is a term I learned way too late in life but I am so glad I learned it at all! Thank you Ellen for putting it in such blunt and clear terms. The differentiation of fawning and people pleasing is so well drawn as well, because out of my personal experience it feels so thin the line between but now it is so clearly distinctive in my mind.
(And on a selfish side note: Thank you for announcing our Live! I AM SO DAMN EXCITED!!!)
Love the distinction btwn people pleasing & fawning! As an adult born & raised in a Christian cult, I fawned to survive & yes, it’s hard wired into my nervous system. Rewiring requires recognition, course correction, acceptance & grace. Btw, did you know that Rachel Bernstein signs off every podcast with ‘One more thing before you go’?
This brought tears to my eyes. I’m only now, at 54, starting to understand that fawning has always been there, hidden deep in my deepest unconscious. It has been crushing to see it, and to take stock of the cost. But also liberating to heal (with lots of professional help) and start feeling something healthier in my body, in my response to the world. Thank for you naming this.
We are close in age. It’s certainly not too late for us & it takes courage to do this work & release a shame so closely associated with this behavior. People generally think, oh, just change…but it’s not so simple when it was literally wired into our operating system!
Thank you for that. It is definitely so much harder than “just change.” I’m not sure anyone can understand it who hasn’t felt it deep down in their cells for a lifetime. Thank goodness change is possible though! It’s such a joy to feel free of the fawning